Moving beyond tactics, the conversation focuses on the structural shifts reshaping the profession: faster news cycles, changing audience behaviour, the impact of AI, and the growing gap between how media relations works today and how many teams are still operating.
Drawing on real-world insight, the episode examines what’s happening in the media right now, how these changes are affecting day-to-day practice, and where PR professionals are struggling to adapt.
At the centre of the discussion is a deeper question: how should media relations be resourced for the future? What skills matter, what needs to change, and how can teams move from talking about change to actually delivering it?
It’s a practical look at what a modern media relations function should look like — and what it will take to stay effective in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Transcript:
Jack Murray 0:00
This podcast is sponsored by Media HQ, the software platform that makes media relations easy. 1000s of contacts, media lists in seconds, delivering your story into the inboxes of all the right journalists. If you're serious about getting better at media relations, we're giving 20 listeners a free 30-minute media relations clinic, designed to help you sharpen your PR process and land more coverage. If you work in PR and you're interested, please email gaye at media hq.com. That's g a y e at media hq.com. Thanks for joining us, Sarah. We're here to discuss, I suppose, trends that are happening. You work at the cutting edge of research and media HQ, and we're looking at some trends that are happening in the last while that PR people can react to and maybe change some of their strategies. So, first up today, big changes at the BBC. Yes, Jack. So the BBC have recently announced they're cutting up to 2000 jobs, and this is significant because it's their biggest downsizing in 15 years, and it's about 10% of their workforce now. So it's quite drastic. So essentially, been in a lot of trouble, haven't they? Like, like every time you turn on the telly, Director General leaving, lots of crises around presenters, lots of HR issues. It's been one crisis after another.
Sarah Robinson 1:23
Yeah, and I think even just their coverage of some events, you know, people don't tend to like either. So I definitely think there is definitely some scrutiny there. So that definitely might have something to do with it as well. I know there's also it's there's financial kind of issues there as well. They're facing increasing competition from streaming platforms now, like you know YouTube and Netflix as well, and also declining household fee licenses as well. That's another kind of part of why that's happening.
Jack Murray 1:45
So it'll have an effect on PR people from the point of view of you know your relationship with a researcher, a producer. A whole mid layer of those people could be just taken out of organisations.
Sarah Robinson 1:54
Exactly, and that's something PR teams need to be aware of. I mean, is the person you've built up a really good relationship with in BBC now going to be gone? Is the program that aligned with your end user audience now going to be gone. So it's definitely something to take into consideration. And as well as that, now you know journalists are more stretched, so essentially they don't have time to be you know sifting through loads of press releases. So it's really important that your PRs are more targeted and more relevant now as well.
Jack Murray 2:17
Next up, I used to be a real sucker for Wired magazine back in the day. I would treat myself and I go to a newsstand, and you know I think nothing of dropping 10 or 12 quid on the print magazine. Wired print edition is going in favour of a digital first approach.
Sarah Robinson 2:35
Yeah, it is, and I think this is seen in more than even just Wired now. I suppose they're following their audience, right? So we can see more people now are consuming, you know, information online, whether it be social media, YouTube, or podcasts. So I think it does show that they're now, you know, looking at this and you know taking quite seriously. And you know, I don't think, you know, print is it doesn't have you know the coverage opportunities maybe it used to. I feel like we're going to see more digital now than maybe the glamor of
Jack Murray 3:02
print is interesting in that like I got a press reader account for myself on my iPad at home and like just the amount of if I if you want digital digital print the amount of stuff that's on press reader like just hundreds and the amount of magazines and then I suppose if you want affordable quality in print, like weekend editions in newspapers, and they're probably facing that competition on all fronts now.
Sarah Robinson 3:26
Yeah, I mean, I don't think you know. Now that you can get access to so many newspapers online, I feel like there's less need for print. And I suppose you know, gone are the days now that people, you know, they get their piece in the newspaper, cut it out, maybe in a frame or whatever it was. You know, I feel like our soul people, yeah. No, but it is quite like it. It is it is
Jack Murray 3:44
funny because also like you look at Reddit, you look at like the whole Reddit sub Reddit. You look at like if I want to find something out from a tech point of view now, like if I wanted a recommendation on something, like if if I want high level strategic advice, I'll go to certain Substacks. If I want product advice, I'll go to YouTube. So I suppose that's what Wired is feeling at the front line. That's that's why it's it's shrinking.
Sarah Robinson 4:08
Yeah, exactly. I mean, people aren't probably looking to the print anymore for the information. There's so much information available now on these platforms that they just don't need to put that investment into the print anymore.
Jack Murray 4:16
And it is like is one of the learnings for PR people here as well. Like, don't always rely on the traditional media outlet that subreddits, Substacks. Like if your audience exists in a place and it's active, you can find them in different places.
Sarah Robinson 4:30
Exactly. The focus should be where is your audience, where is your community. So if this is on those platforms, and that's where you should be going. It shouldn't just be print for the sake of print. You know.
Jack Murray 4:40
And finally, today then investment by traditional media in video, in audio, some of it, some of it leading the way, some of it being a little bit laggard. Tell us a little bit about this.
Sarah Robinson 4:51
Yeah, so I suppose, like in an Irish context, you know, this isn't news, but you know, the Irish Independent obviously were kind of the first movers when it came to this, so they put a lot of investment. Into you know their podcast studio, the tech, the equipment, and then now the Irish Times as well. We pretty much
Jack Murray 5:06
kind of laid to the table on this, like in that, like only in the last few months have they got fully video enabled on their on their podcast.
Sarah Robinson 5:14
Exactly, they're not they're not new to the podcasting game as a whole, but the visual aspect, it's yeah, it's it's quite late in the game. And then we've also seen, you know, even with BBC, they're moving programs onto YouTube now, and RTE as well. I know they're currently working on their YouTube strategy. So we're seeing a lot of these big outlets moving towards this. And I think again, it's they're following their audience. Yeah. At the end of the day, if if billions of people are, you know, on YouTube or watching podcasts when they're commuting to work, then that's where you should be investing.
Jack Murray 5:39
And it's interesting, you know, I I bought a premium account last summer on YouTube, and it was because I you know I was going to somewhere that there wasn't a terrestrial TV connection, and I decided I didn't want to spend the whole summer watching ads on YouTube. It's a transformative experience because when you're not served ads at all, you'll watch longer content, you'll watch documentaries, you'll watch different shows, and I suppose it makes sense. Like the example that we were talking about recently was a program like Tracks and Trails about walking, about hiking, and that's that's being put on YouTube simultaneously with it being broadcasted. It makes sense if the audience is there.
Sarah Robinson 6:12
Exactly, and I know this is something we talk about a lot. Meet HQ is the story circle, Jack. And of course, the first step you're going to look at is where is your audience. So I think it does show that they are following this, you know.
Jack Murray 6:22
Yeah. So if we were to look across the three across the three strands, like digital form, digital transformation, end of print, like investment in new media streams. I suppose the overall message here is like get busy, like researching your audience, and like if you haven't edited your outreach, if you haven't edited your lists, you're behind the curve, and you need to get doing it.
Sarah Robinson 6:46
You do absolutely, and I think you know the biggest takeaways here are your you know your pitches. They need to be targeted. They need to be relevant. And on top of that, I think you need to think beyond a single format now as well. You know, I think the strongest stories are the one that can go across multiple channels. You know, could it make it could make an online article, but it could also make a YouTube segment. It could make a great podcast discussion. So I think you know that's where people need to be looking. You know what it can go across.
Jack Murray 7:08
Thank you, Sarah. Thanks for joining me today. Thanks for those insights. Very helpful, and we'll see you on the next show.
Sarah Robinson 7:12
Thank you, Jack.
Jack Murray 7:22
Laura Wall is the CEO of the Public Relations Institute of Ireland. She's in her first year in the job. She has worked across agency, in-house, and leadership roles throughout her career. She's seen media relations evolve from traditional to social, and now into a world shaped by speed, data, and AI. Media relations is changing fast, but our PR team's actually keeping up. Laura, you're very welcome today. Thanks for joining me.
Laura Wall 7:44
Thanks for having me, Jack. It's great to be here.
Jack Murray 7:46
So you're you're in the job since you're in the Public Relations Institute job since last September. You're probably at the stage where you can't say it's new anymore.
Laura Wall 7:53
Yeah, well, I still do say new. There's a lot to get my head around. I guess going from agency, you know, almost 20 years of agency to a membership organisation representing the communications industry, so it's very different. But yeah, I guess I can't. I have to let go the the new newish. We're still going newish in in the role. Yeah,
Jack Murray 8:15
and like, look, I'm interested in that. We got to know each other in the last number of years through your previous role in Think House, and I've always I was always very impressed with you were heading up media relations there. I was always very impressed with, I suppose. Look, the winds of change in public relations can be different. You can have some places that say, "Look, this is the way we've always done it. We're going to do it this way." I never felt that was part of the ethos in Think House, and I can remember when I'm old enough to remember when Think House started, where it was sort of like this eruption, where you know it was youth communications, it was things being done differently, it was research led, it was influencer led, it was all of the things that the sacred cows in public relations would kind of go. You're doing what? You're talking to you mean you're talking to those people, people on TikTok, people and answer what's that about. So it was a huge kind of like I know you've had a strong relationship with PRII and you you had other voluntary roles in there, but it was a big statement of them, I suppose, for me anyway around change to to bring you in. Talk talk to me a little bit about that.
Laura Wall 9:17
Yeah, so I suppose I was in London before I started a Think House, so I was in a youth communications agency in London. So when I came back into Dublin and settled in after a couple of years, I I kind of had my eye on Think House because I liked how they were doing things. Like you said, they were you know using technology and looking ahead and looking around corners and looking what young people thought about things before anyone else was, and so I spent a few years there, and I was on the board of the PRI, and and yeah, I mean when the the opportunity for this role came across my lap, I I did. Consider it, you know. I was actually I was actually in Can with Heineken and Think House at the time for one of our campaigns, and got the call. I was like, "Oh, this is so different. This is going to be completely different." But I guess that opportunity to bring what I had learned from the agencies I worked in, from working with a team like Think House, and being quite future focused, I was excited by that change and what I could bring to to the PRII and and the membership. And I think there was, you know, an appetite for somebody different to come in and and and and look at things a bit differently. And part of my plan, we've our 18 month action plan down on paper now. And part of that plan is kind of three big pillars: is modernisation. The other two are community and collaboration. And well,
Jack Murray 10:48
just talk to me about that for a second, because like, and I'm really fascinated about like the dynamism of an agency, like the commercial need to get things done to be like that is a quarterly or biannually youth report that Think House does that like literally gets to the cutting edge of what the trends are to a membership organisation and like not just the PRII like membership organisations just like like by their very structure can be dusty they can be resistant to change they can be you know like they can be drawbridges, like so. Like the two are quite different environments.
Laura Wall 11:24
They are, and they aren't right. I think there was a huge welcome from the board for change. We can all see when no one's walking around with their eyes closed the amount of change we're seeing. And actually, you know, to jump into modernisation to look at how we're representing those who are working in agencies like Think House and in-house comms and internal comms and the vast amount of change that's happening. So yeah, okay, we've we've switched. I've switched my hat from clients to members, but I think there is a real appetite to see a membership body, you know, represent that change and be at the cutting edge of that change, and be ensuring that our members have the most up to date information, the most modern information, and really driving that. So I think.
Jack Murray 12:14
And what's the whole bit? So give us your three pillars: modernisation and
Laura Wall 12:18
modernisation, community, and collaboration. Yeah, and
Jack Murray 12:21
I've I've even seen some nice kind of touchy feely, and I mean that as a compliment, not as a woo. Go on, you hippie. No, like I've seen kind of yoga, and I've seen stuff like that, but I've seen like just not your common gardener kind of community building type events. Yeah, like imagine like, and I I always do this with projects. Like, we're three years hence. It's 2029. We're sitting down inside Media Relations. It's the best podcast in the world. Yeah, and you've done a tremendous job in the Public Relations Institute. What, like, what, what does that look like? What, what, like, if you were to quantify it now and say, like, if if if my tenure there has been a massive success, what what would the outcomes be?
Laura Wall 13:02
Well, first and foremost, greater membership figures. You know that's a testament. That's the bottom line. Greater community engagement. I think with membership bodies, you touched on like there is often a leaning towards being quite a transactional experience, but the more we talked to our membership. They want to get out more. People feel like we haven't gotten back to where we were pre-COVID. There's a real hunger for this sense of community of coming together. I suppose the the tricky part is we've got such a broad array of members. You know, from you know freelance communication professionals to those who work in government departments to agencies, you know, to teams at banks, at tech companies. So, trying to really figure out a product and an offering for our members that serves. We're not going to keep everyone happy all the time, but that we are dipping into what serves our membership base, which is broad.
Jack Murray 14:05
Talking about change, because like you know, I've, I've, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm incapable of not changing, and I and I've been the wind of change in lots of places, and like that wind blows people up the wrong way all the time. Yeah, like I don't really care. Like it is a bit where I always say to the guys in the office that like if your if your motivation is to achieve a mission and do good work, you know, the right people will come with you, and that like you know you will piss people off along the way. But like, and like I'm interested in in all professions that there can be a professional moat, and sometimes people can want to protect that. But how do you enact change when it's when like when there might be when there might be resistance and things like that?
Laura Wall 14:47
We're doing a lot of listening and a lot of consultation. So we have a youth communications group happening in a few weeks. We met with our fellows a few weeks ago. They are people who have been awarded. A fellowship, you know, for long-standing service in the industry. A big piece for us at the moment is really looking at how we describe the work we do. We've just talked about change, how we describe the work we do, terminology in our sector, the future of the PRI brand. What does that look like? So making sure we are doing that listening. You know, okay, there might be a few people that maybe don't don't agree with the research we're doing, but you can't argue with data. So we've just gone out with a whole piece of research around the terminology, both in the industry. So that's you know using PR versus public relations versus communications, and kind of digging into that a little bit deeper, and looking at what that data means for the future of the institute and for the future of our our members, you know, and really trying to ensure that what we are and how we show up in society serves our membership best. So we are doing a lot of that listening. I'm not just coming in and and deciding blind what we do, you know,
Jack Murray 16:04
and like talk to me a little bit about AI because like 18 months ago we we put a good bit of money into a global survey on on PR people's attitude towards AI, and the most stark thing that came through in it was that people had no, and this was 12 months ago. Now, like they had no proper process for doing it. They still weren't paying for it. They were arson around with free tools. And one of the things I do, I you know, I dedicate a couple of hours every couple of weeks to. I go on calls with our clients who you know might want to get more out of the Media HQ technology, and I'll give them a half an hour, and we'll we'll go through a framework, just to see you know how they're managing their media relations and how they could get more of it. But I had a call yesterday with someone, and person was talking to me about like the stress and strains on a particular campaign, very detailed campaign. It was an event-based thing with like 100 plus events in it. And at a certain point in the call, I said to this woman, "Do you use AI?" No. And I said, "All right, yeah." Why? And she said, "I'll be honest with you. I'm not doing something that's designed to replace my job." I said, "All right, yeah." And I said, "I said I fundamentally disagree with your approach." And she said, "What do you mean?" Well, I said, "If you get coverage for this event, and do you think your client is going to say to me, "Go say it to you, that thing you did last Tuesday at the meeting" ? So they're not going to know anyway. But I said that way you used AI to to to to get news lines on that. If they're across the news, they're not going to care. And I said, like the most telling thing someone said to me in recent years was, like, this thing is coming for you. You better be ready, and you better have a plan, and you better have a strategy because not having a plan or a strategy is no longer an option. But I still see, like I like I ask the question on all of those calls now. Yeah, a lot of people are still using the free stuff. A lot of people, and I just say to them, "Do you know what? Don't get one account. Get two accounts. Buy two accounts." Like I like. So, what's your experience in the industry of of dealing with people like that?
Laura Wall 18:04
It's so different, like across our membership. You know how people are using AI. You have those who are cutting edge. You know, they're really investing heavily in AI. Understand the power of AI. There is nervousness, and I think there should be nervousness. You know how you what you're putting into the system, what you're generating from the system. There's a term, human in the loop, that's going around. You know, everyone says keep the human in the loop. But actually, I think that can be. I was always uneasy about that term because it felt like the human was the lesser of the two. Like human, we're just kind of in the loop, and the AI fruit loop, yeah, and like, and the AI is doing the rest, you know. It what, and I just don't think we should be level footing. So actually, I was at an event, and I forget who said this. So if you're watching or listening, it was on a panel at a reputations event I was at, and they said it's not human in the loop. It should be human in the lead, and I think I do agree with that. I think should be human in the lead, but to lead, I think you have to be investing heavily in AI and tech because if you're not, you're going to be left behind. And like
Jack Murray 19:12
that attitude that I threw out there, and it's kind of indicative of some of the like, like I I remember, God, it's three years ago now, and we turned on the AI press release writer, and somebody came on, former news editor who uses Media HQ. I'm never doing that ever. And I said, Why? I've been onto my guys to write better, and I said, How's that going for you? Not great. And I said, I've an alternative view in this. And and she said, What is it? And I said, Well, you're Cristiano Ronaldo when it comes to doing this stuff. You're high performing. You're in the top 1%, and everyone else in your team is pretty rubbish at it. And I said, "Here's the thing that they're levelling up now with this tool, and you're a little bit threatened by it." I said, "You don't like it." And like I've like I've written a book. I'm not. I wouldn't be afraid. Like I I delegate huge. Like we have calls in Media HQ where I'll say, "Okay, let's record the next 20 minutes because I want to download.". Stuff that's really important, and it generates a transcript, and we get a set of action items out of it, and nobody has to bleed out their eyes, and it's all fine. And like, there isn't somebody, there isn't somebody feverishly writing notes and having to transcribe them, and you know, so
Laura Wall 20:13
there's, and I think it's it's using the AI as an assistant, and I think that's for communicators where the magic is, and
Jack Murray 20:22
what about this fear that it's gonna like? What's wrong with it doing the work? I suppose if if there's if there's someone like there's, I I tell you the bit that I just don't understand. You have a lot of experience. I have a lot of experience. Yeah. So when you deal with these things, when you have a lot of experience, when you have a lot of experience, you have a lot of judgment. You have a lot of taste. Yeah. You have a lot of discerning power about what rubbish is, what's good, what's a good news line. So if the human is in the process like that, and they're using these tools, if you're getting the outcomes for the clients or or for the stakeholders in an organisation, like like we're we're it's all like throwing buns at an elephant. Like it doesn't really matter what we think. If the thing is going to eat us all whole. It's going to eat us all whole anyway. Yeah, we may as well be having a good time along the way. I the
Laura Wall 21:04
one the one I suppose I've been talking to a few people in the industry about the jobs piece, and I think what I would love to see more of is the universities empowering young people to become AI superstars, because I think there that hasn't, in my experience, you know, hasn't happened yet. Where the universities are leading and they're creating these, you know, AI experts on graduating. There are people leaving college and they're afraid of it. And I think for young people coming into the industry, I would be concerned about the entry level roles and what it's what's happening at that space. There was a job ad that went up at an organisation, one of our member organisations, for a junior role, inundated, scarily inundated. So I'd be looking at okay, well, there is an issue where we are seeing more junior professionals or graduates looking for roles, and they're not the jobs aren't there at the at the junior level as much. So I would be looking to the universities now to say, right, how do we empower? How do we skill these young, hungry graduates to come into our organisations and help us transform, because right now it's middle management, senior that are making the decisions around AI implementation.
Jack Murray 22:32
And like the other thing is like these like like I remember somebody in the Irish Times saying to me a couple of years ago like, oh well we can't make any money. This is 10 years ago. We can't make any money from the digital stuff yet, and I went. Well, it doesn't still doesn't mean it's not going to mess you up. I said just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it's not going to come and eat your lunch. So like you can either like if it's tango dancing that's coming on, you can either do that. And I know you're a dancer, but you can either. You said you bring your dance shoes today, but you can either do the dance or not do the dance. But that's what's that's what's on the dance floor, like it's like, and if you're my my worry is, and I'd love to hear your your view on this, is that there is a hard core of people in the industry that, like, three and a half years in, they still haven't got the frequency. They still haven't got that, like, you know, this is coming. It's coming hard. It's here. It's yeah.
Laura Wall 23:17
It's here. Like, it's not even. It's coming anymore. I feel like it's here, it's now. You know, we're seeing that, and I think I do. I do feel very strongly about human in the lead. And sorry, I can't quote whoever said that to me. I'm not robing your your phrase, human in the lead, because I just feel like I I haven't seen a press release yet generated by AI that you just blindly send send out. I have not seen that yet. So I do think that nuance, that intuition that humans have, use it. I use it as an assistant. Use it as your assistant. It's going to superpower, supercharge the work that you do. Keep that human in the lead element is is what I would what I would would say. No, I like I I
Jack Murray 24:07
have though is it like I like I I had one of those calls a couple of weeks ago and it was it was of a food business that they put something up on Media HQ and it was shared by a marketing person and they kind of missed the kind of context of sharing it, and I said that was a missed opportunity. And and the woman said, "What do you mean?" Well, I said, "That looks like it would have been a really good business story in the Sunday Times, like like to read like a as a brand repositioning piece." I said, "I could imagine reading it on a Sunday." And obviously, I was bringing my human in the loop PR experience to play. Human in the lead. In the lead, sorry, in the lead, not in the fruit loop, in the lead. And but I gave, I gave what was put in, and I said, "Hi, this was shared. It was completely by. It was completely misconstrued. There's no top line on the story. Could you re? Could you rewrite it, please?". As a business story in the Sunday Times, as it might appear, it was yeah. But
Laura Wall 25:06
Jack, that it didn't. You gave it the prompts to do that. It didn't draw like you said. I think human head. Yeah, this would be a brilliant business story in the Sunday Times. You picked a specific. That's true. Like you gave it so much context there, so I don't think going to an AI to say draft a press release based on this, you know, I don't think we're there yet where it's fully automated. You used your years of experience to go. I actually spot that that would be a brilliant business, or so that's exactly the point. Like human in the lead, you need that nuance, that Intelligence to and your experience to to make those decisions with AI as your assistant.
Jack Murray 25:46
So if you're if you're watching or listening to this and you want to want to upskill, you want to you know be ready for what's here. You want to be the right side of this in your current job and based on your experience of like dealing with changing environments. What specific advice would you give to someone to get ready to to really dig in and get ready?
Laura Wall 26:07
I would say be looking at you know all staff training for your teams, getting really into upskilling now. You know your your your staff with AI tools and systems. Like we've looked at our entire education portfolio, we have a new head of training and education. Shout out to Rob Farrell, and he is big on AI and digital. So we've got new courses across the board on AI learning, and they we can't keep up with the demand. People do want it. Yes, there is hesitation, and some people are further ahead. Some people are than others, but there is a hunger. And I say, just get your teams upskilled. You know, get them educated on AI, what it can do. Get familiar with the EU AI Act that's coming down the tracks in August, and also we have the our own Irish AI strategy. So there's going to be lots more around that. You know, as we start August, just get under the hood. Yeah,
Jack Murray 27:06
and start breaking. Like you know, from your time in Think House, like start breaking eggs, start ideating, start start using it, start experimenting. Like in recent weeks, I have started just what you said. Rather than asking it the answer, I now ask it the question. So rather than like I'll now say I'm doing X and Y. I'm going to give you a transcript of a conversation I had. Can you please write me the prompt?
Laura Wall 27:28
Yes.
Jack Murray 27:29
To achieve this, and it'll blow your mind in that it will write you a question that you wouldn't conceive in a million years. Yeah. And then it'll say, "Do you want me to run this prompt?" So it's like everything, unless you. I think unless you're willing to experiment and like jump that fear gap that people have, because if you don't like, you know, what what do you think there are systematic, huge systematic changes coming down the line very soon? Then
Laura Wall 27:56
I I think so. Like I don't. I think sometimes it feels like AI is the only conversation, and we have to remember we've been through this before with the introduction of social media. There's there is always this initial fear, the unknown. It's never going to take off. Then when it does, people start to kind of dip their toes. I think we're still going to need the strategic thinking and the skills of communicators. You know, I don't think all of a sudden AI is going to be able to do all those things, but I do think it's going to be a huge asset to us. I think AI in the mix of everything else that's happening in the world. You know, we're seeing, you know, misinformation, disinformation. You know, just the noise pollution is actually the trends where people are retreating from, you know, kind of broadcast social media to, you know, we're seeing a lot more brands do like community channels, closed WhatsApp groups. You know, I don't can't remember the name of that band that blew up over the over the last few weeks are selling out, but they've developed a whole new way of writing music, and it's all human. So whilst you know we're in this you know explosion of AI, there are these interesting things happening where people are looking at more human.
Jack Murray 29:21
And do you worry then? Like I like it is interesting for people like you're not as old as I am, but you've been round a while. But there's a bit where like when you have 20 years experience, that like you've done your 10,000 hours. Like you you know you've you've done the late nights, you've done the hard yards, you've crafted all the press releases you've looked at all the strategies. So there's a bit where you bring that that grey matter to the new thing, and you look at differently. I have a huge worry about the you know the the graduates coming out and and the kind of AI eating that experience whole on them, and that like so that when when you. Have a bit of experience. You have context in which you can look at these things. When you're new to it, that's a that's a real challenge.
Laura Wall 30:05
Yeah, 100%. And I think that's why the universities play a key role here as well in giving graduates real confidence and coming out. You know what? You know, for for for agencies and for communications teams who are looking to hire, it's going to be so much more attractive to hire those who can come in and absolutely reimagine how you do business with AI. You know, so I think for you know for for universities to be ensuring that we have graduates coming out who are completely confident in in AI. So I think we have a job to do there for sure.
Jack Murray 30:41
So we're all going to be like a very tight knit community, chilled on yoga. We're going to know all about the future when it's finished. But to finish today, we want to do your rapid fire round to ask you some questions. We asked you to prepare some questions before you came in today. This was really hard,
Laura Wall 30:56
and I'm still not sure what my answers are. But anyway, you know that great
Jack Murray 30:58
praise. If it was easy, that I'll be doing it. And so let's start. Give me one media moment that's changed how you work.
Laura Wall 31:06
It was actually the my first campaign for the Oesophageal Cancer Fund when I worked at Drury, and we landed coverage on Lollipop Day for Oesophageal Cancer Fund. And on the back of that coverage, the donations that came in. So that immediately, at the very start of my career, signalled the impact, the absolute real-world impact that PR and communications can have.
Jack Murray 31:28
Second question: Give me one example of something that failed that you learned from.
Laura Wall 31:34
How long have you got?
Jack Murray 31:36
Just one. Just one.
Laura Wall 31:38
In London, I sent full global communication strategy to the wrong Claire. It was a Claire from another brand, and I. This is when I worked in London. I got summoned to the brand I was meant to send it to. I got summoned to their HQ in London when we nearly lost that account. I was very new. I was 24, so young, and but oh my god! Do you know the minute
Jack Murray 32:03
she sent it, or did you?
Laura Wall 32:04
I knew five minutes later when she replied all with the rest of the other brand team still on the email. You've sent this to the wrong player, so it was yeah. And I, you know, I think we should talk more about our mistakes. I actually would love to do a series on the mistakes I made. And how was it received? How
Jack Murray 32:19
was it received?
Laura Wall 32:20
The how was what received? Like
Jack Murray 32:23
when when you were summoned and like
Laura Wall 32:25
oh I I just had to apologize and just say I'm I'm incredibly sorry. Like what what could I do? We're all human, human. Um, the theme of the day. We're all human. We make mistakes, and actually, when we talk about our mistakes, when I was when we when I ever tell that story or or others, it's amazing to hear. What's your what's your biggest mistake?
Jack Murray 32:44
I once sent out I once sent out a press release. Mike, when I was working for the Progressive Democrats, Michael McDougall said, "Can you send this out?" And I was really tired. It was in the middle of election campaign. I actually printed out 20 copies of it, walked into Leinster House, handed it out, and before I came back and emailed it out, Mark Brannock, who was in the Irish Times, rang me. Went, "This stuff is dynamite. This stuff, this stuff, calling Bertie's project a Ceausescu era project." I hadn't even read the thing, right? And my phone lit up, and Mary Harney rang me, and she said, "Why did you send that out?" She said, "He told me you read it and you approved it." I said, "I did nothing of the sort," and like I saw read then, I rang Michael McDougall. Imagine this, I rang Mike McDougall, and I effed him out of it. I said, "Don't be telling me about I read this. You told me to send it out. I was doing my job." And he got very. He was like, "Oh, I'm really sorry, but I never read
Speaker 1 33:30
it."
Jack Murray 33:31
And like it was all over. It was like the lead story and all the papers the following day, and they were talking about it for two weeks afterwards. And like, no,
Laura Wall 33:36
yours is worse. I was too tired. I thought, "Oh, I just send
Jack Murray 33:39
it out." Yeah.
Speaker 2 33:41
So yeah, let's do it.
Laura Wall 33:42
Let's do an event series on mistakes. That'd be great, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jack Murray 33:46
What's one universal belief about public relations that you think is wrong or overstated?
Laura Wall 33:51
I actually think we're in a space where you know, pure as a term, has been taken and used in the media as as it's like a bad word in the media, PR, and it's
Jack Murray 34:08
like gloss and spin. Yes,
Laura Wall 34:09
using the same lineup as misinformation spin PR. I'm flat out writing letters to the editor since starting in this role, and also in the new creator and influencer world. You know, my when I ask my little cousins what they think PR is, they're like, "Oh, it's a box you get sent. You get sent a PR from." So I think that the word itself, like it's it's completely misunderstood. So, and I don't think it describes what strategic communications is and does. And I think there's a job to be done there.
Jack Murray 34:40
What's one piece of advice you wish you had earlier in your career?
Laura Wall 34:43
Stop stressing so much. It's P or not E or.
Jack Murray 34:47
Yeah, it's good. It's good. Yeah, I
Laura Wall 34:49
stressed a lot in my younger career. It was everything. I look back and you know, don't you know, stop stressing so much. It sounds like a really, really basic one, but I think it's we talk about mental health and we're. Stress and work-life balance more now, and I think that's brilliant because we didn't back then.
Jack Murray 35:04
But there's a big adrenaline. Like I was talking about it earlier today. There's a big adrenaline rush around sending out a press release, and like on that day, we're saying that you get this high, and then there's a crash after it. Like, and and you come into the office the next day, it's quiet, and you feel useless, and it's that kind of cycle, and we all get addicted to it, and it's like, and like it's like live that the the light is on, and like the press conference is on. Yeah, what is wrong with me?
Laura Wall 35:28
It's like talking about talking about that the coverage, the send out the buzz, um, and even the my first the lollipop day um coverage and seeing all that happen and the impact. I think if you start in communication with people and you don't get a buzz. Yeah, like you're in the wrong career. No, exactly. You know, change career.
Jack Murray 35:43
And if you're not kind of gently terrified and excited all in the one kind of wrap up, yeah, and that like talking to people and getting that nod of recognition when you have a big thing happening and you're thinking like, is anyone going to show up? I'm not going to get any coverage. Like, like we used to have a joke where like if something like amazing happened, like we got a lead story, the lads go, "You can retire now," and like, yeah, today is the day. It's never getting any better than this. Front page, the Irish Times. You may pack your you pack your satchel there today. Last question: What book do you think everyone in your job should read?
Laura Wall 36:15
Bonus Time by Brian Penny. Tell me about
Jack Murray 36:18
it. No, I haven't.
Laura Wall 36:19
Brian Penny is an ex-addict, and it talks about his dark days. Sorry, it's not specifically for people in communications, but just anyone. He talks about the darkest days. He almost lost his life to addiction, and the the how he climbed back from that. He was 15 years, I think. I've got the time frame right as an addict, and he's now a lecturer in Trinity. He is an unbelievable, an unbelievable man, and he'll make you appreciate every single day for what it is after reading that book.
Jack Murray 36:50
Why did it resonate with you so much?
Laura Wall 36:52
Because you can get up and you can, you know, get stuck in the mundane and the small stresses. And actually, this really reminds you that this day is a gift. You're actually not guaranteed today. You're not guaranteed tomorrow. So it really is a reminder that I think about that book. I read that book about, I'd say it's about six seven years ago, and I honestly think about it every second day. So read it. It's it's amazing.
Jack Murray 37:14
Thanks, Laura, for joining us today. It was a great conversation. It's great to catch up and have a laugh. The best of luck in the job, and I'm sure we'll be seeing you in further episodes of Inside Media Relations.
Laura Wall 37:24
Thanks so much, Jack.
Jack Murray 37:33
Thanks for watching and listening to this episode of Inside Media Relations. Thanks for tuning in. If you like the show, please like and subscribe, and come back the next time when we'll take a deeper look inside media relations. See you next time.
